Author Topic: Which version of WordStar 7.0  (Read 13557 times)

comvoice

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Which version of WordStar 7.0
« on: October 02, 2003, 11:47:09 AM »
     I asked a person selling a copy of WordStar for Dos 7.0 whether it was version 7.0d. He answered: "Everything in the manuals say 7.0. The numbers on the disks are A1-L0010.D5
and A1-D0010.D5.  Hope that helps."

     Would this be version 7.0d? Or does it matter, since it doesn't seem to be version 7.0c (it has 20 disks)?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 04:00:00 AM by 1111651200 »

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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2003, 07:20:40 PM »
With 20 disks they're going to by 5 1/4", which is probably what the 5 at the end of the part number represents. The D? Disk, or rev D? I don't have a disk set around to look at at the moment.
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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2003, 04:09:18 AM »
That's a set of WS7.0A on 20 5-1/4" floppy diskettes. It came boxed with 6 manuals. WS7.0D did not come with any manuals, but it did have a number of bugs fixed.

If you can afford it, you might want the WS7.0A set in order to get the manuals.

You can get a new set of WS7.0D from a firm that's still selling inventory listed on the WordStar Users Group home page at http://www.wordstar2.com/cbabbage/wordstar. They're selling WS7.0D shrink-wrapped with a boxed set of WordStar for Windows 2.0 (which includes the WSWin2 manual).

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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2003, 08:30:35 AM »
Sunday 05 October 2003

Just for the record WS7d did ship with manuals.  It was the upgrade copies of WS7d that did not have manuals.

Phil
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 04:00:00 AM by 1111651200 »

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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2003, 09:21:57 AM »
Hi Phil,

That's news to me. When I first ordered WS7 from The Learning Company, I specifically asked for the latest release of WS for DOS and said that I wanted manuals. They shipped WS7.0 (i.e., 7a), even though WS7d had already been released. When I asked why, the response was that WS7.0 had manuals, and WS7d didn't. I then had to pay them another $15 for the WS7d replacement diskettes.

I guess it's too late to lodge a complaint :-/.

In any event, the part numbers comvoice lists are the part numbers found on WS7a 5-1/4" diskettes.

deedee
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comvoice

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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2003, 11:24:09 AM »
First of all, I'd like to thank the people who have been replying to my note and who have been posting on this thread. You've posted useful and helpful info, and very promptly. Thank you very much.

I realize now from what has been posted that the set of disks must have been for WordStar 7.0a. Actually, I can't use 5.25"  disks at the moment, sigh.

I have written to the firms listed at the WordStar Users Group, namely Software India Pvt. Ltd and its American agent, UNIK Associates, asking whether they  still had WordStar for sale. But I haven't received any answer at all. Does anyone know if WordStar is really still available from them?

I currently use WordStar 4 for DOS, and also sometimes WordStar 6. But my files for WordStar 6 are incomplete, and WordStar 7 has some useful improvements. I can't say that my need for WordStar 7 is urgent; I can continue with what I have; but I would like to obtain WordStar 7d, if for nothing else in order to be able to use the Windows clipboard with WordStar, and to get more printer installation files.

I was also about to bid on WordStar for Windows 2 on e-bay, as a Windows version of WordStar would be nice. But then I read the info about  WordStar for Windows more closely. The instability and long, long list of bugs, combined with the fact that the file formats may be strange, turned me off. The last thing I need in my life is more Windows instability!!! Or file conversion problems.

I guess I will eventually have to write some macros to allow me to use WordStar commands with WordPerfect for Windows. Years ago, I did this successfully with WordPerfect for DOS 5,  but have never gotten around to doing this for WordPerfect for Windows, because (a) the macro system may have been improved over WordPerfect for DOS, but the documentation is atrocious, and (b) the macros I have programmed for WordPerfect for Windows take a little time to execute -- no problem for some macros, but one wants one's WordStar-like cursor-movement commands to execute immediately. But I guess I should experiment a little and maybe it can be done satisfactorily. For example, I haven't yet tried attaching the macros to a WordPerfect keyboard, and maybe that executes faster.

Thanks again to the people posting on this thread!
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 04:00:00 AM by 1111651200 »

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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2003, 02:03:35 AM »
The Indian company wrote Dave, the list administrator for the WordStar Users Group, in mid-July indicating that they still had inventory. That's when I posted it to the WUG home page. A couple of people mentioned to me privately that they ordered the package and got it within a couple of weeks.

In the past, the company has responded to e-mails within 48 hours. They sell legacy software inventory. My feeling from talking to them earlier this year is that it is a small distributor in the USA. So even calling usually means leaving a message and waiting for a response.

With regard to WSWin2, I use it a lot and have not found any MS Windows application that can handle mid-level desktop publishing as well as it can. I also use WPWin9 as well as WP5.1+, and Star Office and MSWord on the mswin platform.

WSWin2 is no buggier than other apps on that platform. I would consider it somewhat more stable because it has a screen redraw command that many of the other apps don't have, and I feel all mswin apps really need that.

Linux comes with a "refresh" utility that works across the board. This is an important feature when working with very complex documents.

WSWin2 doesn't have a good Tables feature nor an advanced mail merge feature. But then, I use WS7 to produce my mailings, and send the compiled lists to WSWin2 to make the output pretty. It does sport OLE, and I use that with WP's Tables to include complex tables in WSWin2 documents.

I have had no more problems converting WSWin2 files into WP, Word or Star Office than in converting WP or Word files into the other formats, or any of them into HTML.

All of them have strange file formats as far as the others are concerned -- that's why there are conversion utilities ;).

WP comes with WS utilities that include WSWin, but you have to install them separately because they aren't installed by default. The same is true for MSWord. Star Office installs them by default.

Overall, I've found that Star Office is the best performer in terms of getting good conversions from other word processing apps on the mswin platform.

In terms of getting access to clipboard functions, I've found that Linux is far better than mswin for all applications. I use WS7 under dosemu/Linux and, very recently, from a VMWare Workstation virtual machine running win98se on a Linux host.

With Linux's "pick up and paste" function, a special clipboard command feature is unnecessary. All of my dos applications can copy to and from the Linux clipboard, and only WS7 had such a command to begin with. In fact, all of my applications (dos, mswin, and Linux native) can copy to and from each other under Linux. Every single one of them.

The printer issues are much easier with Linux since Linux handles the printing, even the office jets (the multiple function scanner, printer, faxing machines) can more easily be installed and accessed with all dos applications under Linux than they can be for dos applications on the mswin platform.

If you're willing to leave the mswin environment, I think you'll find that a lot of things become easier with the software and peripherals you now have.

deedee :)
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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2003, 04:01:14 AM »
Don't bother looking for WordStar 7d if you want to run it under Windows NT, 2000, or XP, and the main reason is for the Windows Clipboard feature - it doesn't work on these versions of Windows.

WordStar for Windows is not at all like WordStar for DOS, it;'s a DTP based program, not a straight word processor.

You can often pick up WordStar on eBay. There is a full list of all known places to obtain it on this site, linked from the Home page. Have a look at: http://www.wordstar.org/wordstar/pages/where.htm
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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2003, 06:05:31 AM »
Getting WS7d solely for accessing the mswin clipboard command is useless, especially if one intends to stick with mswin because none of the recent MS windows releases support that WS command anymore. MS wants DOS to be dead, and it's been a constant source of embarrassment for it that DOS refuses to die.

I disagree with the notion that upgrading to WS7d is a waste of time, however. WS7 provides all the latest features that came with WS DOS as well as the bug fixes. Its functions are likely to outlast the earlier releases as OSes continue to change in the future.

Since word processing these days is expected to do a certain minimal level of desktop publishing, the fact that WSWin2 was specifically geared to do that makes it an important contributor in that niche on the mswin platform.

One of the reasons I consider MSWord a very poor contributor to that niche is that it claims to be a word processor, but its word processing is superficial. It's really trying to be a low-level DTP entrant, but it's very poorly organized for that purpose. It doesn't work well in either niche for people who need to be productive.

In general, the mswin platform is weak on the DTP score (and extremely expensive to be so weak). I notice that a number of Linux DTP apps are being ported to mswin, so that should help it in the future, but currently it is the weakest platform if you need to do much DTP, trailing far behind Mac and Linux applications.

The main thing that people notice about WSWin2 is that it is not organized the same way as WS DOS. So, some folks end up very disappointed about that. I was at first.

However, it is strong in the word processing/DTP category, and it comes with the WS DOS keymappings as an alternative to mswin keystrokes and the mouse.

In addition, there are macros to remap most of WS DOS's commands already in existence. One can, though I do not recommend it for manipulating graphics and frames, use WSWin2 entirely from the keyboard using WS keystrokes or creating WS-like keystrokes for those features not common to both applications.

I find that the combination of WS7d and WSWin2 on the mswin platform delivers a full spectrum of important features not available with any other software there.

deedee
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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2003, 02:00:02 PM »
If the whole purpose of buying WordStar 7d is for Clipboard access there's no pint if any version of Windows NT is being used to run it. It has nothing to do with Microsift wanting DOS killed off - Windows NT has never had DOS as a part of it and no version of Windows NT (NT3.x, 4, 2000, or XP) support transactions between the Clipboard and the command shell. WordStar will see this as Windows not running in Enhanced mode.

WordStar for Windows may be great for what you do, but for someone using WordStar for DOS, who may think that WordStar for Windows is just an upgrade and will be like the DOS program with bell on it is not going to be what they expect.

I don't know how you can say the MSWin platform is weak in DTP, other than you because you have a dislike for Windows and are becomming a Linux evangalist. Some of the best and most popular - if expensive - DTP software is available for Windows, and the platform is encroaching on this area which was traditionally held by Macs.
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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2003, 01:08:58 AM »
I do want to get the word out that Linux isn't the horror that MS and MS groupies have made it out to be. It's in fact a lot easier to work with than mswin. Most importantly, for productivity purposes, the software is every bit as good as the good software on the mswin platform and superior to most of what is available under mswin.

For people relying on DOS software, such as the majority of WS users, Linux is great. It allows them to continue using that software with all the modern conveniences of new peripherals and components. Even those people still relying on WS3.3!

MS is not supporting DOS on purpose. They have been pretending for years that mswin was not dos-based, even though it was. How short your memory has gotten. They want to lock people into certain things and a lot of DOS software, such as WS, is of such a quality and programming that people don't really have to change. That doesn't fit the MS plan for computer domination.

The best DTP software is not on the mswin platform, although popular (meaning that a lot people have bought into it) software is. That's because of MS's criminal monopolistic practices that forced people to get mswin with their computers, whether they wanted that OS or not. So, of course, users, especially people new to certain industries, bought the software for that platform. Duh.

That's not popular because anyone knowledgeable about the industry thinks it good, that's popular because of being locked into something regardless of its quality.

For the record, DTP titles on the mswin platform like Indesign are not bad, but they do not allow for comparable work that is routinely done on electronic compositors. Quark Xpress is the software of choice for every two-bit wannabe service bureau, and the work produced is atrocious. Quark in the hands of an expert, however, still cannot perform at the level of electronic compositors.

TeX on Linux can. Indesign and Quark on the Mac platform can come close when used by people who understand the industry's standards.

I understand that a person could reasonably expect that WSWin2 is like WS DOS, but superfically modified to work on the mswin platform. That's why I went to the trouble of explaining exactly what should be expected and how it fits in with other titles they may already be aware of.

With regard to WS7, comvoice indicated that newer printer installation files were also of interest, not just use of the mswin clipboard. Printer drivers are important for anyone using DOS software, and WS7 has newer drivers than WS6 not to mention WS4, which is what that user is relying on.

I don't feel that people should claim things for WS that it doesn't have, but I don't see how it is that a person gets criticized on a WS forum for pointing out WS's good points and how to continue using it to its fullest potential.

Sorry, Mike, but you are sounding like someone who's discouraging the use of WS.

deedee
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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2003, 06:41:09 AM »
Quote
I do want to get the word out that Linux isn't the horror that MS and MS groupies have made it out to be. It's in fact a lot easier to work with than mswin.
That's fine, but please do so on the Linux discussion board - it could do with some topics! And for negative opinion about Windows you could use the Windows discussion board. The WordStar buy and sell board is not appropriate for either.

Quote
For people relying on DOS software, such as the majority of WS users, Linux is great.
So it may be, but that's nothing to do with the questions asked.

Quote
MS is not supporting DOS on purpose.
MS has never supported DOS in Windows NT although they have provided a DOS-like and largely DOS compatable command shell - it's not DOS, never was and never will be.

Quote
They have been pretending for years that mswin was not dos-based, even though it was. How short your memory has gotten.
With Windows 95, 98, and Me, yes, they tried to hide and then reduce the importance of DOS, eventually locking you out of it except through the DOS and later Command Prompt shells. But Windows NT has never been DOS based.

Quark is used on PC platforms as well as Macs for magazine and newspaper production - not a toy, one would assume; then there's FrameMaker, Ventura, Interleaf, yes, InDesign and PageMaker too.

Quote
I understand that a person could reasonably expect that WSWin2 is like WS DOS, but superfically modified to work on the mswin platform. That's why I went to the trouble of explaining exactly what should be expected and how it fits in with other titles they may already be aware of.
I did see them, but they were somewhat lost amongst the rest of the message. The most salient point you made was...
Quote
The main thing that people notice about WSWin2 is that it is not organized the same way as WS DOS
Which I'd suggest is a bit of an understatement! It's a completely different beast. You can get some of the WordStar commands directly, and others through macros that I have on this site for download, but it'll still be a shock to the system if you're expecting an updated version of WordStar 7.

If there are enough updates, or the price is low enough, of course buying any WordStar 7 will be of potential benefit, and 7d the best choice if it can be had. But, one of the stated primary aims of upgrading was also to gain Windows clipboard access, and that just isn't going to happen if comvoice is using any version of Windows NT. That leaves the question of "are the extra printer drivers going to be useful for the printers comvoice has?"

Quote
but I don't see how it is that a person gets criticized on a WS forum for pointing out WS's good points and how to continue using it to its fullest potential.
I don't think my reply was criticising you. I restated that WSWin is completely different to WordStar for DOS, which I thought was lost in your message; and that Clipboard access may not be gained buy buying WordStar 7d. None of this has anything to do with Microsoft's manipulatory sales techniques, so bringing that into the equation was irrelevent.

Quote
Sorry, Mike, but you are sounding like someone who's discouraging the use of WS
That's why I run this Web site? I obviously don't want to discourage anyone from using WordStar, but I won't advise anyone to part with their money if I think that what they're planning to buy may not suit their needs. Comvoice already uses WordStar, so my comments won't stop its use, only the purchase of a different version or of WSWin.

Please do start up some threads on the Linux and Windows boards, you have a lot of interesting things to say on the subject. If you do, please invite your WordStar/Linux group to join in. Maybe you can persuade other WordStar users to dip thier toes into the Linux sea?
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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2003, 12:46:33 PM »
Mike,

You were the one that brought up MS and it's not supporting the clipboard for DOS programs. I did not. Comvoice did not. My answers all dealt with the problems that comvoice specifically brought up.

Nowhere did comvoice indicate which mswin version intended to be used. You assumed that it was going to be XP. Most home users who are also long-time DOS users, however, install win98se or winme on new systems, not XP.

Since comvoice did indicate that WS4 is what is being relied upon, clearly an upgrade to WS7 would be in order, with or without the clipboard regardless of mswin version to be used.

However, if the clipboard is important and if one wants to continue using WS4 or WS7, Linux is a better choice for platform. This is not evangelizing, this is dealing with the issues.

Saying that MS wants DOS to be dead is not an interpretation, MS has said so repeatedly and that's one of the reasons they are discontinuing those releases that will properly support DOS apps. They don't want people using DOS applications. People aren't voluntarily flocking to the NT series, so MS is discontinuing the others in order to force that as well as other issues. This is no secret.

Saying that Linux will allow a WS DOS user to continue using WS and all of its features is not interpretation. A bunch of us are doing it, because it's fact. It's not evangelizing or giving an inappropriate answer. It addresses the issues raised by the person asking the question in the spot where the question is being raised.

All the rest was brought up by you. I responded to your criticism that when I tell someone their options you don't want me to include Linux. Well, Linux is an option which some of us have chosen so we can continue using our favorite software the way we've been using it all along. In fact, it is MS Windows which is no longer an option for those of us who want to do that.

If you want to discuss Linux or MS Windows and you would prefer them to be in another spot, you should raise them there. I did not raise them. You did. I responded to the issues that you raised in the spot where you raised them.

deedee
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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2003, 10:30:08 AM »
Silly me! - that's in not remembering to ever respond to anything you say and not expect to get flamed! Also in forgetting to say that should comvoice still be using Windows 3.0 or earlier the clipboard function would not work. It works only in Windows 3.1, 95, 98, Me, and with some patches that Phillip Griffin-Alwood can provide, in OS/2. In any other OS, Microsoft or otherwise it doesn't work.

If comvoice is in for an OS change as well as upgrading WordStar Linux may be an option - although there was no suggestion that this may be the case. It seemed that Windows of one version or another was to be used, so offering that the NT range wouldn't support one of the main stated reasons for the upgrade was fully justified.

You brought up Linux, and if you want to discuss its virtues please do so on the Linux board. I did not raise Linux as an option as comvoice specifically said the Windows clipboard function was a reason for the upgrade - it doesn't work in Linux, or Windows NT.

There are a number of printer driver updates available on the WordStar for DOS section of this site, and Phil has other work-arounds.
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Re: Which version of WordStar 7.0
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2003, 12:52:34 PM »
You have a very odd view of flaming if a person defending their views by sticking to the objective issues is considered a flame. The only person attacking personalities here has been you. It's obvious that the mere mention of Linux sets you off.

While it is true that the Windows clipboard only works with certain versions of Windows as far as DOS products are concerned, Linux has a clipboard too. One can copy to and from it to everything else on a Linux box from any WS DOS release using Dosemu and, for that matter, a VMWare Workstation.

So if the clipboard function is important, Linux is as logical a choice as Windows to bring up because the clipboard can be accessed there in just the same way that everything on Linux can access it. It just can't be accessed using the ^K[ and ^K] commands. Those commands are unnecessary with Linux, and don't work with the Windows NT series. Even so, you were the one to make an issue out of it.

If using more current printers is important, Linux is an even better choice than Windows because all the issues of printing are handled transparently through Linux.

There are a number of things a person needs to do in order to use modern printers on a Windows system, some of them kind of intimidating depending on how comfortable the user feels about configuring computers. Even then, one is limited on the Windows system by the DOS printer driver.

On a Linux system, that's not the same big issue because postscript printing is so easy and automatically set up. In addition, the overwhelming majority of modern printers are supported by Linux, including the multifunction officejets and winprinters from major manufacturers like HP, Epson, Canon, Apple and IBM.

I brought up Linux because it was appropriate to do so when someone says they need the use of a clipboard and are concerned about printer installation files. However, most of this Linux discussion has only been to deal with your attacks on my mentioning it and on my encouragement to comvoice to upgrade to WS7 if possible, and for no other reason.

Most of this discussion wouldn't have taken place if you hadn't tried to discourage comvoice from upgrading to later releases of WordStar by focusing on the negative aspects (which are only negative if one goes to the Windows NT series) and ignoring the positive aspects of upgrading, despite an expressed interest in doing so.

As you point out, this is the "buy and sell" portion of the forum. WS operates under multiple OSes. So how is it that it's only appropriate to mention Windows here? I would think that it would be appropriate to mention any OS that WS works under here -- or no OSes at all.

deedee
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